[10:59] <steveronuken> I need a devblog, I'm holding out for a devblog
[10:59] <steveronuken> 'Til the end of the night
[10:59] <steveronuken> It's gotta be long
[10:59] <steveronuken> And it's gotta have graphs
[10:59] <steveronuken> And it's gotta be fresh from the devs
[11:01] <sebastien_st.frusquin> At this point even an Icelandic version of the devblog would be welcome
[11:02] <sebastien_st.frusquin> If only because I never saw Spaceship stuff explained with runes
[11:06] <darren_fox> Fair assumption that it will be out before the skillbooks are on TQ
[11:10] <sebastien_st.frusquin> Unless you need the skills trained to at least level 1 in order to read the attached devblog... That would be evil
[13:04] <steveronuken> The plan I've heard seems reasonable. Won't make everyone happy, but still reasonable
[13:05] <5pitf1re> Oy vey. Prepare the pitchforks.
[13:05] <titus.tallang> "plan" for what specifically
[13:05] <titus.tallang> for skill transition i can live with "reasonable"
[13:05] <darren_fox> "Blap dreads have feelings too?"
[13:05] <titus.tallang> for everything else "won't make everyone happy" is probably aiming a bit low
[13:28] <5pitf1re> EVE is kill :disappointed:
[13:32] <titus.tallang> ccp has hired steam devs
[13:32] <darren_fox> Sounds more like a cache issue.
[14:09] <scott_ormands> They are invalidating all of the sso tokens
[14:30] <steveronuken> skill transition plan
[14:31] <lordsservant> I hope noone got access to my accounts><
[14:32] <lordsservant> iirc someone on reddit said they got an account that was last logged on in 2008?
[14:32] <lordsservant> so unsubbed accounts seems legit
[14:32] <lordsservant> it'd be hilarious to log into f900 or toymaker (iirc that was his name) account
[16:20] <steveronuken> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6326165 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6326165
[16:23] <darren_fox> Great way to sort the SP issue
[16:26] <darren_fox> What happens if you're sitting in a super and reset the racial carrier?
[16:42] <ccp_larrikin> https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin/status/696729235612946432
[16:42] <ccp_larrikin> @darren_fox: you'd have to inject the FAUX skill for that to happen
[16:42] <ccp_larrikin> and, basicly nothing. You get no bonuses but you can still warp/jump/take gates/etc without any skillpoints in carrier
[16:43] <ccp_larrikin> you can't undock or board it thoug
[16:43] <darren_fox> ok, that yes good
[17:21] <5pitf1re> puts away pitchfork
[17:30] <jezza_mcwaffle> Hopefully the skills wont be 500m a pop
[17:32] <titus.tallang> that's a good plan
[17:32] <titus.tallang> i approve
[17:46] <5pitf1re> ccp_larrikin: what about fighter/fibo SP?
[17:48] <titus.tallang> 500m for a fax book ccp_larrikin?
[17:48] <titus.tallang> that's a bit...painful
[17:51] <5pitf1re> I mean the fighter skill alone is going to be utterly useless to a carrier pilot that decides to use the unallocated SP to train FAX machines.
[18:15] <xttz> "If you can fly one before you can fly one after"... providing you have 500m per character spare
[18:17] <rocket_x> p annoying
[18:17] <rocket_x> given that i trained carrier 5 to be able to both use carriers/supers AND be able to fly triage properly
[18:18] <rocket_x> now i'll have to choose
[18:23] <rocket_x> @ccp_larrikin: will i be able to unplug tactical logistics reconfiguration book from my super pilots that are currently also triage capable?
[18:31] <max_kolonko> That is ridiculous. I have all 4 carriers on both of my chars, fighters 5 fb 4, triage 5 and sudenly i have to choose if im triage or carrier pilot?
[18:32] <rocket_x> yeah...
[18:32] <rocket_x> or
[18:32] <rocket_x> you can sacrifice 2 races of carrier skills
[18:32] <rocket_x> and put them into the remaining races of FAX instead
[18:32] <5pitf1re> min/gal
[18:36] <max_kolonko> I know right?
[18:37] <max_kolonko> And I have to do it when? before or after we know what bonuses carriers and fauxes have?
[18:43] <max_kolonko> I really see no problem with SP inflation @ccp_larrikin, why not simply give both skills depending on You fighter / triage skill?
[18:43] <titus.tallang> because pay2win
[18:44] <max_kolonko> players that are affected by this are usually laready above 80mil sp limit of skill injectors minimal gain
[18:44] <titus.tallang> you can still extract it
[18:44] <titus.tallang> for full effect
[18:45] <max_kolonko> only if You pay cash to CCP
[18:45] <max_kolonko> win - win
[18:51] <rocket_x> i'm pretty disappointed with whats been announced tbh
[18:56] <rocket_x> https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/44rmdo/from_ccp_force_auxiliary_skills_tldr_carrier/czsebrh
[18:56] <rocket_x> this
[18:56] <rocket_x> p much
[19:00] <max_kolonko> so lets summarise last two days: Useless web, Broken skill transition for Faux'es AND SSO fail :simple_smile:
[19:01] <rocket_x> the web is actually not too bad
[19:06] <5pitf1re> I don't know, I don't see it as such a big deal to be honest.
[19:07] <5pitf1re> I don't like the fact that fighter SP remains untouched if you decide to go FAX instead of carrier.
[19:08] <5pitf1re> I know that you could have all four trained and only go for one FAX, which is fine but if you decide to go full FAX on all four then there is no point for the fighter skill.
[19:10] <scott_ormands> rocket_x [1:51 PM]
[19:10] <scott_ormands> i'm pretty disappointed with whats been announced tbh
[19:10] <scott_ormands> I totally get where they are coming from by trying to prevent sp inflation but i dont think this is the best solution
[19:11] <rocket_x> yeah same here scott_ormands
[19:11] <5pitf1re> especially with extractors being a thing now
[19:11] <rocket_x> lol
[19:12] <rocket_x> extractors don't really have much to do with it if you can't efficiently re-inject
[19:12] <rocket_x> which on a character that's likely to have multiple capital books injected
[19:12] <rocket_x> is highly unlikely
[19:12] <5pitf1re> not talking about injecting it back
[19:12] <rocket_x> yeah
[19:12] <rocket_x> but for example
[19:12] <capqu> has it already been shown which carrier variant will have the links
[19:13] <scott_ormands> no
[19:13] <capqu> fuck
[19:13] <scott_ormands> we dont know anything about new carriers
[19:13] <5pitf1re> WTB decblog
[19:13] <capqu> my carriers are only for links so do i train fax or not
[19:13] <scott_ormands> prob not train fax
[19:13] <scott_ormands> but you can inject anyways
[19:14] <5pitf1re> he's probably >80mil sp
[19:14] <scott_ormands> and if you dont ened it just reinject the free sp into your carrier
[19:14] <capqu> i wouldnt say free sp
[19:14] <capqu> assuming the books are 550m a piece
[19:14] <scott_ormands> true "free"
[19:14] <capqu> seems like a dumb cash grab due to the timing with the injectors to me
[19:15] <scott_ormands> i really hope they look at the cost of the skill books
[19:15] <capqu> course that could be a coincidence but i dont believe in coincidences
[19:15] <scott_ormands> the explanation for their cost has always been their versatility
[19:15] <scott_ormands> but thats being heavily reduced now
[19:15] <5pitf1re> yep
[19:16] <capqu> well they wont refund the books assumedly
[19:16] <5pitf1re> that should really change now
[19:16] <capqu> they really should just not have a new skill
[19:16] <5pitf1re> mhmm
[19:16] <5pitf1re> racial carrier unlocking FAX as well?
[19:16] <capqu> why not
[19:16] <capqu> thats how it works for every other ship
[19:17] <5pitf1re> I tried to think of a downside real quick but I can't find one.
[19:17] <scott_ormands> they should have just turned tacxt logi recofig into the new skill that effects both the hull and triage module
[19:17] <capqu> racial battleshit 5 + blank ops = racial blomps
[19:18] <capqu> its like having to train gallente logistics cruiser v for onieros
[19:18] <capqu> well not v but gallente cruiser v -> gallente logistics cruiser i for onieros
[19:18] <5pitf1re> should have just made t2 carriers with pure triage role
[19:19] <capqu> and the timing with the skill jelly injections just makes it seem really shitty
[19:19] <capqu> and cash-grabby
[19:19] <capqu> milking the game before it dies kinda vibe
[19:19] <scott_ormands> speaking of cash grab
[19:19] <scott_ormands> http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/skill-trading-launch-offers-on-aur-subscriptions-and-plex/
[19:19] <capqu> which i dont believe is the case but i bet some people will
[19:25] <scott_ormands> to be clear i dont think any of the devs intent this as a cash grab but marketing isnt making this look any better
[19:33] <rocket_x> and i swear to god
[19:33] <rocket_x> if a dev turns around and is like 'just buy skill injectors'
[19:33] <rocket_x> to use on my 200mil sp char
[19:33] <rocket_x> i might have to strangle someone
[19:34] <rocket_x> it'd cost me 12b
[19:34] <rocket_x> per carrier book
[19:37] <max_kolonko> less for me as I have most carriers to 4
[19:37] <max_kolonko> still a tons of injectors to get it all back
[19:41] <rocket_x> [13:11] i'm about to get mad if i have to train fax 1->5 btw
[19:42] <rocket_x> [13:12] m8. we gotchu.
[19:43] <scott_ormands> sure they do, just rip out racial carrier 1-5
[19:43] <rocket_x> I'm quietly raging right now
[19:45] <scott_ormands> I'm sure you arent alone
[19:45] <scott_ormands> i just recently put my triage pilot into a super, if i ever have to use him for something else he's useless
[19:45] <rocket_x> this basically fucks everyone who's trained a carrier book to use for both roles rather than just one
[19:45] <scott_ormands> i really doubt the combat carriers will have that high of a usage
[19:46] <scott_ormands> yeah
[19:46] <scott_ormands> one of my old corp mates has 8 carrier pilots he has to retrain now that should have been finished
[19:47] <scott_ormands> and if he does choose to put them just into FAX's tyhen their 8m sp in drones is a waste
[19:47] <rocket_x> yeah
[19:47] <rocket_x> you're fucked either way
[19:47] <scott_ormands> and he cant get that back except by giving ccp $$$
[19:47] <rocket_x> tactical logistics recon + all the RR skills are wasted
[19:47] <rocket_x> or fighter/drone skills are
[19:48] <max_kolonko> so which way to the nearest monument?
[19:48] <max_kolonko> I want to shoot at something
[19:48] <scott_ormands> logs in jita alt
[19:48] <max_kolonko> :simple_smile:
[19:48] <scott_ormands> THIS IS WHY THEY MOVED THE JITA MONUMENT
[19:48] <scott_ormands> so we would have to boat farther from station to shoot it
[19:50] <max_kolonko> I'm gona take tractor beam with me and tractor it back to where it was
[19:53] <scott_ormands> max for CSM
[20:01] <max_kolonko> Thank You, Thank You where much. If I get elected I promise You I will make all monuments accesible inside docking range of stations
[20:02] <scott_ormands> not the csm we deserve but the csm we need
[20:02] <max_kolonko> :smile:
[20:09] <rocket_x> that's from this channel
[20:09] <rocket_x> couple of days ago
[20:10] <scott_ormands> should we right up a full response to these changes?
[20:11] <scott_ormands> i know a lot of people arent happy, we might be able to verbalize it more constructuvely
[20:15] <rocket_x> i would guess that the post went out today
[20:15] <rocket_x> because the patch introducing the fax books is literally tomorrow
[20:16] <rocket_x> and the devblog wasn't ready
[20:16] <rocket_x> they couldn't release the patch and have said nothing at all about it
[20:26] <scott_ormands> im betting theres still time to make a change if they need to plan wiseif ther players make a big enough fuss
[20:32] <lamhoofd_hashur> i would have rather seen that they reduced the multiplier on the skillbooks to compensate
[20:32] <lamhoofd_hashur> since you can do less with 1 ship, why keep the training time equal?
[20:33] <lamhoofd_hashur> same goes for ISK cost
[20:35] <max_kolonko> ^^ this
[20:35] <scott_ormands> at the very least rank should be brought into line with dread
[20:35] <scott_ormands> dread is 12 carrier is 14
[20:37] <lamhoofd_hashur> i was thinking of 10x or so
[20:37] <lamhoofd_hashur> but you get the point
[20:39] <scott_ormands> yeah
[20:42] <max_kolonko> still it would have to be halved to actually have both skills
[20:42] <max_kolonko> which is not going to happen
[20:43] <lamhoofd_hashur> you can still reimburse 4x in SP
[20:43] <lamhoofd_hashur> or 14x
[20:43] <lamhoofd_hashur> and let people divide that between the new skills
[20:44] <lamhoofd_hashur> it would mean people 'only' have to train similar to a 6x skill to max everything out (in the example of 10x)
[20:50] <max_kolonko> so how many injectors You would have to pay to get back where You where before patch? :smile:
[20:50] <max_kolonko> money grab, best grab
[21:50] <rocket_x> well
[21:50] <rocket_x> assuming you have 80mil sp+
[21:50] <rocket_x> 12b
[21:50] <rocket_x> per FAX book
[21:50] <rocket_x> to go 1->5
[22:24] <lamhoofd_hashur> And wo the stats i dont even know which to train first
[22:32] <lamhoofd_hashur> And as i ready on reddit as well.. the 500mln currently for the sb also gives access to supers
[22:32] <lamhoofd_hashur> This isnt the case for FAX
[23:11] <xttz> @lamhoofd_hashur I like the idea of simply reducing the skill rank for both carrier and fax so people can be given both without creating a large divide