[12:46] <ccp_fozzie> FYI when SISI comes up it will be with a build that doesn't have all the bonuses working yet. I prioritized getting the bonuses involved with fitting (slots, pwg/cpu bonuses and highslot fitting reduction bonuses) done first so you should be able to use ghost fitting to figure out what modules fit with the current stats but the actual bonuses will be hit or miss at best for today.
[12:47] <ccp_fozzie> The main areas that we can start getting good feedback from today's sisi build will be:
[12:47] <ccp_fozzie> 1) Fitting room (cpu/pwg/slots)
[12:48] <ccp_fozzie> 2) Graphics (since the new subsystems aren't mirrors of the old ones the art team went through their own process of assigning graphics to the new subsystems and we're interested in getting feedback on what people think about those)
[12:49] <ccp_fozzie> the bonuses that aren't working in this build should be appearing bit by bit over the next couple days
[12:50] <caprisunkraftfoods> ok cool
[12:50] <caprisunkraftfoods> do you happen to have a list of what bonuses aren't implemented just so we know what stats to ignore?
[12:53] <ccp_fozzie> In this build it will be quite a few missing, and I'm actually not sure exactly how many yet. It will depend on which changes got caught by the build.
[12:53] <caprisunkraftfoods> kk
[12:54] <caprisunkraftfoods> I'm sure the numbers will be pretty obviously off anyway
[12:54] <ccp_fozzie> The fitting related ones where done first and should all be working, and I think it's extremely likely that the HP and local rep bonuses for the defensive subs will be in
[12:54] <caprisunkraftfoods> I don't know if it's been posted publically but someone did actually ghetto update EFT
[12:54] <caprisunkraftfoods> kk cool sounds like the most important ones to me :thumbsup:
[12:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> fozzie just re fitting stats btw, myself and a few people have spent a lot of time playing with the loki both missile and web configurations, and it could probably do with an extra couple % PG
[12:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> like 2-5%
[12:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> i'll get you some fits that illustrate it
[13:01] <ccp_fozzie> I'd appreciate that, thanks
[13:03] <exooki> @caprisunkraftfoods ghetto EFT available somewhere?
[13:04] <caprisunkraftfoods> yeah got em on dropbox
[13:04] <caprisunkraftfoods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzkuc4n9a7i64qh/EFT.zip?dl=0
[13:04] <caprisunkraftfoods> its just the .dat files in the data folder you need
[13:05] <caprisunkraftfoods> was just distributing it to people in full for ease
[13:05] <caprisunkraftfoods> but you can keep your fits by just copying the data folder into an existing install of the most recent version of eft
[13:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> like I say, not 100% sure I trust the numbers its putting out though just because of the source
[13:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> hence waiting for pyfa/sisi to make concrete claims
[13:13] <caprisunkraftfoods> okee first one, brick tank web loki https://puu.sh/wqp0W/86e4dce4c8.png
[13:14] <caprisunkraftfoods> EHP is fine, resists are good enough, no real complaints there
[13:14] <caprisunkraftfoods> but the PG is so tight that you can't really fit anything useful in the high slots
[13:15] <caprisunkraftfoods> typical things you'd fit in utility highs on a web loki would be cynos, medium smartbombs, whore guns, maybe a nos
[13:15] <caprisunkraftfoods> you can do those things at current, you can't do them after the patch
[13:19] <caprisunkraftfoods> next up, neut legion https://puu.sh/wq1P0/6486c88037.png
[13:19] <caprisunkraftfoods> the current one needs bassically 2 mods be stable with 6 medium neuts using talismans
[13:20] <caprisunkraftfoods> however this one has neither the PG to fit 6 neuts, nor the capacitor to operate them
[13:21] <caprisunkraftfoods> https://puu.sh/wq1SX/54c3308c16.png this being what we're comparing it to at current
[13:21] <caprisunkraftfoods> note that old fit also has a sebo and an ewar mid
[13:22] <caprisunkraftfoods> so even though you can get it sorta close on the actual neut/tank power, you're losing an enormous amount of utility and ewar defense to achieve it
[13:25] <titus.tallang> your new fit also gains a tank slot, though
[13:25] <titus.tallang> which, yes, doesn't allow it to achieve the tank on the old version, but that's kind of the point here
[13:27] <caprisunkraftfoods> I mean, the objective here is a rebalance to open new possibilities, nerf things that are OP, and buff things that aren't viable
[13:28] <caprisunkraftfoods> I don't think anyone was under the impression that neut legions were OP
[14:53] <rowells> Those new ehp values are looking fairly decent. @caprisunkraftfoods do you recall where the Loki was before slaves?
[14:57] <caprisunkraftfoods> oh its a big nerf
[14:57] <caprisunkraftfoods> I mean
[14:57] <caprisunkraftfoods> bling brick tank web lokis were stupid in the first place
[14:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> http://img.skyride.org/ECxtel.png
[14:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> thats a t2 loki with links and no implants
[14:58] <caprisunkraftfoods> they deserved an ehp nerf anyway
[14:59] <caprisunkraftfoods> or at the very least something done about those t2 resists haha
[14:59] <caprisunkraftfoods> sorry that fit 303k with a damage control instead of a 2nd eanm
[15:00] <caprisunkraftfoods> http://img.skyride.org/pF1gJp.png
[15:02] <rowells> Wait, that can't be right. Unless neocom is broken, my current x-type Loki gets 262k ehp
[15:03] <rowells> And that T2 fit (almost identical in slot layout) is getting 293
[15:03] <titus.tallang> links, @rowells?
[15:03] <rowells> Did it go up?
[15:03] <caprisunkraftfoods> nope no implants
[15:04] <caprisunkraftfoods> do you t2 rigs and links?
[15:04] <titus.tallang> the posted lokis have damnation links on them
[15:04] <rowells> Oh my bad I read that as no links
[15:04] <rowells> (Sorry using mobile tool)
[15:05] <rowells> Still seems oddly close
[15:06] <rowells> Sadly snippets don't work on mobile client
[15:48] <exooki> @ccp_fozzie do we have any direction on the indy stuff? im a little concerned that we still have nothing at all besides " new stuff, more expensive, current stuff changes"
[17:00] <asher_elias> @caprisunkraftfoods Have you made any logi fits with the ghetto eft?
[17:01] <frsd> @ccp_fozzie Is it possible to add a tiny drone bay to the shield logi sub so that they don't gets shunned from KB's forever unless they die?
[17:14] <frsd> My first logi entry:
[17:14] <frsd> https://i.imgur.com/1axsfQy.png
[17:48] <rowells> with proper skills, you might be able to swap a rig out for command processor and end out positive on tank for most of them
[17:49] <rowells> btw @frsd does that include any links/implants/fixings?
[17:51] <asher_elias> @frsd Looks relatively unimpressive
[17:51] <asher_elias> I was concerned about them muscling out logistics ships but probably not with those stats considering skill loss and cost
[17:59] <asher_elias> the tank isn't great considering the sig ratio to EHP. Links will improve that but it still doesn't look like it will muscle out mainstream logi. On the other hand there may still be room for a snuffbox type pimped/slaved legion to work in lowsec
[18:02] <asher_elias> Looking at the initial fit for "line" t3s I'd be curious if any of the decision makers here would have their group continue to use them as a main doctrine
[18:11] <rowells> I imagine so. You'll just either see blingier fits (if it can even get blingier) to compensate or cheaper fits since they'll die more often
[18:24] <frsd> @asher_elias those stats are without links because I have no fucking clue how to EFT
[18:24] <frsd> so if you put those ontop of it
[18:24] <frsd> They should tank like 50% more across the board
[18:24] <frsd> the tengu fit i made is shit and can be improved, loki stays tankier though
[18:25] <rowells> was the armor loki even worth looking at?
[18:26] <frsd> armor webbing loki still works, 160k ehp is what i got before links
[18:26] <rowells> I meant armor logi
[18:27] <rowells> also, is there a reason why the sensors and scan res are so different between the four?
[18:29] <rowells> now that I look at it more closely there are some pretty big variations between some stats here
[18:56] <asher_elias> @frsd it's a little confusing in EFT how to do boosts, but it doesn't matter
[18:56] <asher_elias> I prefer to compare non linked fits anyway
[18:58] <asher_elias> sounds like the loki tank is more of less the same
[18:59] <asher_elias> current fit has 172k
[19:32] <caprisunkraftfoods> @ccp_fozzie on the support subsystem, what about +6H +1M/L instead of just +7H
[19:32] <caprisunkraftfoods> any rep or link fit is going to benefit more from an extra mid/low slot than an extra high
[19:33] <caprisunkraftfoods> like +1M on legion/proteus and +1L on tengu/loki
[19:35] <caprisunkraftfoods> solves your 6th low slot on loki, 2 -> 3 lows on HK tengu, +1 mid for capacitor on a rep legion, etc
[19:36] <caprisunkraftfoods> a useful utility mid or utility low is a lot more useful than a (probably empty) high slot
[19:41] <caprisunkraftfoods> mmmmmmm actually doesn't solve the loki because you don't have PG for dual plate with that sub
[19:41] <caprisunkraftfoods> still
[19:58] <sturm_gewehr> We had issues with there being too many lows/mids with support subs already.
[20:01] <mawderator> @mawderator uploaded a file: Current 100mn Tengu Camel https://ccpfocusgroups.slack.com/files/mawderator/F5XFB8V98/current_100mn_tengu_camel.txt
[20:02] <mawderator> @mawderator uploaded a file: Post Patch 100mn Tengu Camel https://ccpfocusgroups.slack.com/files/mawderator/F5WR57JJU/post_patch_100mn_tengu_camel.txt
[20:10] <mawderator> 9 more seconds to the align time on 100mn fits puts us in the realm of plated carrier align time
[20:12] <sturm_gewehr> One of these reasons 100mn tengu was viable was its align time with 100mn.
[20:13] <sturm_gewehr> Dual nano fits were also possible with 3 more lows to play with.
[22:04] <sturm_gewehr> The dual nano 100mn tengus lose 12 seconds align.
[22:05] <sturm_gewehr> Which is quite severe on top of the rest of the nerfs.
[23:05] <white0rchid> I'm going to get onto SiSi as soon as I can, away in edinburgh for a few days but will take a look when I'm back