[13:19] <white0rchid> Can I just check why the salvage bonus was removed?
[13:19] <white0rchid> Someone raised the question in the forum thread
[13:19] <white0rchid> And I can't for the life of me remember why you took it away
[13:19] <white0rchid> @ccp_fozzie
[13:22] <ccp_fozzie> You mean the tractor beam bonus @white0rchid ?
[13:23] <white0rchid> yeah that's the one
[13:23] <ccp_fozzie> Concerns were raised here about it being too easy to stay completely aligned while running WH sites to make yourself extremely hard to catch
[13:23] <ccp_fozzie> and we took a look at the number of tractor beams fit to T3s on TQ and it was very low
[13:24] <ccp_fozzie> so when we added the tank heat bonus to the covert sub we took the opportunity to remove the tractor beam one
[13:24] <white0rchid> Right I see, can't say I'm a fan but fair enough!
[13:25] <icarus_narcissus> I definitely, as an explorer and an explorer hunter, agree with that change. I played around with it after someone (I think @noxisia) brought it up, and am in agreement
[13:33] <noxisia> I did
[13:46] <icarus_narcissus> Also, I'd like to say the hull relic volume changes, along with the increase in cargo, largely resolves my concerns from very early on about their viability as exploring ships in WHS. I haven't had a chance to check Sisi yet today, but are the new component BPOs seeded?
[14:38] <exooki> the new components are seeded on TQ
[14:50] <icarus_narcissus> @exooki thanks, I'll get on asap
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> @ccp_fozzie had a really good look through all the sub models again. Looks like they fixed most of the inconsistencies
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> here's the ones that were still there
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> Legion uses the old Wake Limiter model for the new Nullification Subsystem, and the new Wake Limiter Subsystem uses the old Fuel Catalyst subsystem. If we could ditch the old Fuel Catalyst model and have both those subsystems use their original models that'd be perfect.
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> Legion Core - The new Augmented Antimater Reactor sub uses the old Dissolution Sequencer model, while the new Dissolution Sequencer sub uses the old Emergent Locus Analyzer model. If those could be swapped it would save a lot of confusion.
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> Proteus Offensive - The new Support Processor sub uses the old Drone Synthesis model while the new Drone Synthesis sub uses the old Covert Reconfiguration model. Swapping those would save confusion.
[15:07] <caprisunkraftfoods> Proteus Core - The new Electronic Efficiency Gate sub uses the old Emergent Locus Analyzer model instead of the old Electronic Efficiency Gate model. Would probably save confusion if that got swapped back, but they look similar-ish anyway and there's no role swap so it's probably not a big deal.
[15:09] <caprisunkraftfoods> It was just about keeping roles consistent. Like the new support offensive subs should use the old covert offensive subs, the new nullifier subs should use the old nullifier model, etc
[15:10] <caprisunkraftfoods> it was mainly the nullification subs and covert subs that were all messed up, but seems like they fixed all of them except the legion nullifier
[15:11] <ccp_fozzie> for the most part the sub visuals that got dropped completely were removed because the art team went over them and decided those were the ones they didn't want to keep from an aesthetic perspective
[15:12] <caprisunkraftfoods> yeah in fairness from that perspective I can't say I disagree with any of them :stuck_out_tongue:
[15:12] <ccp_fozzie> and most of the other ones you mention here have some reasoning behind them, for instance the old proteus covert sub has the visuals for a more prominent drone bay if they choose to swap that big door out for a forcefield in the future
[15:13] <caprisunkraftfoods> what about the legion core subs? Thats the only inconsistency still there I'd be remotely worried about personally
[15:14] <ccp_fozzie> we recently discussed one of the issues Niart brought up in the thread and another swap was made (to fix the clipping launchers on the Loki)
[15:15] <ccp_fozzie> the big dome thing on the old emergent sub looks more "sensor-focused" than the old dissolution
[15:15] <ccp_fozzie> for the legion
[15:16] <caprisunkraftfoods> mkay
[15:16] <ccp_fozzie> I mean, if you had never seen a Legion before and someone asked you which of those front ends has the best radar, the old emergent one is the clear choice :slightly_smiling_face:
[15:16] <caprisunkraftfoods> I mean all the real complaints I had got fixed already. Just went through it sicne you specifically asked :stuck_out_tongue:
[15:17] <ccp_fozzie> yup thanks a ton, both for these comments and the earlier ones
[15:17] <caprisunkraftfoods> no complaints about flying mini-avatars
[15:17] <white0rchid> It also seems the ahac legion will use the antimatter sub too, mostly
[15:17] <white0rchid> so it'll still look similar to the two pronged one we have now
[15:18] <caprisunkraftfoods> I mean its not really a huge deal
[15:18] <caprisunkraftfoods> I can count on one hand the number of people I know who can just right click look at a t3 and know what the subs are by visuals
[15:18] <caprisunkraftfoods> its not a huge deal
[15:19] <caprisunkraftfoods> as long as you the nullifier and racial ewar subs are easily identifiable it probably doesn't matter
[19:27] <sullen> @white0rchid another thing to remember with this patch. there is a lot of things changing and so many fleets are going to have to either be revamped, or disappear and replaced with new ones. given how difficult it is to predict the outcome it's always better to have things underpowered at first, and then add accordingly which results in happy fanbase, rather than OP as fuck from the get go and then people get mad as you remove it all
[19:28] <sullen> (looks at rorquals) lol
[20:54] <exooki> as long as CCP holds to the plan of iterating on them quickly and regularly until they are where we want them to be, thats a fine stance. It would be far fromt he first time weve heard thats the plan only to never see them touched again