[11:55] <jintaan> IMO the main problem with the Svipul is the same as was had previously with the 'Cane. (though the 'Cane had the downside of being a BC and therefore vulnerable to BS')
[11:55] <jintaan> It's built so it can do Arty, but that fitting compensation lets it fit pretty much anything it wants if it fits Autos.
[11:58] <steveronuken> Ac + duel neut... :wink:
[12:37] <selto_black> I'm still on the fence as to whether arty fitting should be lowered, or autos fitting raised. However, raising AC fitting would more than likely break all hulls, which would then need a fitting pass of their own.
[13:39] <ccp_fozzie> One way or another we're not going to compress auto and arty fitting entirely, their gap will remain larger than the other weapon types
[13:40] <ccp_fozzie> as that gap is part of the uniqueness of the weapon system and the extra fitting with autos is one of the racial strengths for minmatar (that help compensate for their racial weaknesses)
[13:42] <ccp_fozzie> we've already reduced the powergrid of larger artillery sizes a bit in the past, so the gap is currently more significant for small arty than for the larger sizes
[13:42] <ccp_fozzie> so we have some room to work with without removing the uniqueness of the weapon type
[18:20] <mrhyde> I agree with @ccp_fozzie in not reducing the gap that much to keep the racial flavors in place. Would like to see more emphasis on a 'mode based' rebalance.
[18:21] <mrhyde> Or if rigs are still in play, maybe just getting rid of them on all t3 hulls and rebalancing from there.
[18:57] <johndrees> I seem to remember seeing some nice pvp usage statistics related to each of the t3d.
[18:58] <johndrees> I'd bet we are mostly on the same page regarding the order in which tbe destroyers are most to least balanced.
[19:00] <johndrees> So maybe those stats aren't really that relevant.
[19:05] <johndrees> But anyway I do remember that we had come to something of an agreement that the most balanced was the hecate while the least balanced was the svipul followed by the confessor.
[19:10] <johndrees> What do you guys think of them within the context of the changes that have taken place since the last focus group discussions?
[19:49] <fintarue> There were previous discussions regarding putting part of the damage on Sharpshooter, which I feel could be renamed assault mode. This will put more weight on the pilot to decide what specific goal or bonus they're looking for in a situation. This will also help somewhat with the svipul and being able to just sit in defensive, do full damage, and have 26kEHP before links and the shield buffer implants
[19:50] <fintarue> I also still push for the jackdaw's slot layout to be changed to 6-5-3, which will help alleviate some of the jackdaw's slowness or DPS issues, while still giving it a more than respectable tank
[19:52] <fintarue> To reiterate, much of the group previously had also mostly agreed that reducing the scan res bonus in sharpshooter/assault mode would go a long way to help balance the instalock issues
[19:54] <fintarue> The svipul may also do well to lose some PG, forcing people to decide more on whether they want more tank or to sacrifice those utility highs. This would help alleviate some of the issues with the AC svipul and it's overall insanity
[22:19] <namamai> Yeah, a large part of the Svip's strength lies in that there's basically no reason to ever leave Defensive mode once you're in AC range. You actually lose damage in Propulsion (due to moving faster than your tracking, since Svip has no tracking bonus), but you already track well enough to not need Sharpshooter.
[22:20] <namamai> Also, don't forget that when the ganglink change occurs, Infowar links will now have a +scanres option, so instalocking gatecamps are going to continue to be a thing whether or not the Svipul's scan res gets nerfed :disappointed:
[22:23] <namamai> I'd really like to see some updated stats on T3D usage -- I suspect that usage patterns have changed a lot since the last focus panel.
[22:24] <namamai> There's a certain tendency for ships to be super popular when they're launched; now that T3Ds are a standard thing, I wager we've got far fewer "let's roll through FW with linked massively tanked jackdaws/hecates" and more daily flyer fits.
[23:05] <suitonia> Our old Discussion on Sharpshooting mode being for valuable was basically this.
[23:05] <suitonia> Reduce T3D role bonus damage from 50% to 25%
[23:05] <suitonia> Put a 20% DPS boost on Sharpshooter mode. This will enable T3Ds to get the same damage output as now, since 1.2x 1.25 = 1.5
[23:05] <suitonia> Remove Scan Resolution Boost, replace with Damp Resistance bonus.
[23:05] <suitonia> those were the ideas that carried the most weight iirc, I don't want to sound like I'm putting words in other people's mouths however.
[23:09] <suitonia> By putting partial DPS on sharpshooter mode, you make gameplay more interesting, because right now for Svipul as Fintarue/Namamai mentions, The Svipul is in speed mode until it gets a scram, then it switchs to defensive mode the entire fight, thats it for dicision making. By putting 20% DPS on SS you limit the power of the tanky stat blob T3Ds, while also adding gameplay "Do I want to kill this guy faster or do I want to tank more" can be an interesting choice if your fighting 3v1 against frigs for example, or maybe the guy your shooting might have backup on the way. Also makes RR T3Ds and T3D blobs more interesting to fight, because the best pilots will want to maximise how long they can be SS mode, and it gives more counterplay for the opposing side, as they don't just have to shoot at T3Ds in defensive mode, they can try and headshot svipuls that are in SS mode, and if the enemy RR gang just balls up in D-mode they lose 20% DPS which is fair.
[23:11] <suitonia> I also would like to see the base speeds of the Confessor and Svipul adjusted to hecate/jackdaw level and replaced with a prop mode bonus instead
[23:12] <suitonia> https://suitonia.wordpress.com/2015/12/17/why-are-the-svipul-and-confessor-so-much-more-overpowered-than-the-hecate-and-jackdaw/ This goes into great lengths of explaining why
[23:14] <suitonia> I really like the gameplay behind the hecate base speed/prop speeds, frigate agility/speed but bc speed/agility when caught is much more fun imo
[23:16] <suitonia> Also while the mode swapping instawarp thing is cool, I think it adds a needless knowledge burden and is convoluted and hard to understand for new players
[23:17] <suitonia> so I like the 66% agility on Speed instead
[23:17] <suitonia> and no base speed